Interview with PhD Natasha Gaber, Institute for Sociological and Political Legal Research

It’s high time that the Roma community did something for itself

There’s concern about the level of capability of the Roma civil organizations sector to carry out by itself the implementation, which is multi-sectoral and brings a big responsibility.

“One important distinction is being slowly crystallized in the public and it becomes clear to those who are interested that the Roma Decade is one process, and the preparation of a National Strategy for Integration of the Roma People in the Macedonian Community is another process. In this case we are talking about two very important, parallel and complementary processes”-points out PhD Natasha Gaber-Damjanovska, who works intensively on the preparation of the National Strategy for Integration of the Roma People, document with a substantial importance for the Roma community and the society in general.

What’s the difference between the Roma Decade and the National Strategy?
The Roma Decade consists of four priority themes: education, accommodation, health and human rights, supplemented with action plans. Their preparation is coordinated by the governments of Central and Eastern European countries, and are specified by every country separately. Their implementation should last from 2005 to 2015. As opposed to this, the National Strategy for Integration of the Roma People is much more comprehensive because it also includes other areas, besides those stated with the Decade, it sets priorities in every area and predicts indicators for following the effect of the suggested measures. The passing of this document is also a process on which I work as a contractor, appointed by the Ministry of Labour and Social Policy. My task was to gather all the researches, experiences, the existing legal frame and the other elements that can help in the preparation of the document and the appointed areas covered in it. The Ministry of Labour and Social Policy and I as the person who prepared the draft-text are in a phase of gathering opinions and suggestions from the special ministries, but also from representatives from the Roma community, political parties, civil organizations, foreign organizations and agencies etc.

The process of passing the National Strategy is facilitated by the American Organization “Project for Ethnic Relations”, which has previous knowledge and expertise, as well as previous knowledge in the region of CEI, getting involved in accepting numerous reports for the situation of the Roma people in different issues, supporting a regulation that should also be accepted in the EU countries (respect and providing certain standards for all citizens, including the Roma people).

What’s the general approach in the preparation?
The general approach is based on the existing rights of the Roma people in Macedonia, which are taken from the national and international legislation ratified by our country. It’s clear that the Roma people as citizens of Macedonia have certain rights they should enjoy. During the implementation of those right (similar as in other countries, including new members of EU and countries-candidates) it’s proved that because of the specific characteristics of the community and sometimes also because of the inflexibility of the state, a situation is created in which the Roma people don’t have a possibility to overcome their problems: citizenship statute, huge accommodation problems, very limited employment possibilities, use of force on them, the fact they aren’t included in education, non-equal approach to health care services, carrying out the social rights, social help etc. A special issue is the discrimination, but it’s not shown in its most direct form in Macedonia, compared to other countries. Though, it’s desirable for Republic of Macedonia to pass a special law against discrimination, apart from those legal provisions in the Criminal law which regard the discrimination committed by an official person, including the institutional provisions. This is because there are certain dimensions of discrimination which haven’t been covered with the regulation yet, as: distinguishing and punishing the indirect, just as the direct discrimination; discrimination of people from the private sector, just as from the public; discrimination with regard to the availability of public services (health care, education etc.). The modern European legislation is aiming to expand its influence in these domains, including these provisions in those new areas.

Among the strategic priorities are the problems connected to the special statute of the Roma woman in the Roma family and generally in community, whose emancipation should bring to progress of the community and the society.

What in the draft strategy is considered to be a priority in the surpassing of the piled-up problems of the Roma people in the state?
The conditions of living, accommodation, employment, education, health care, social help and protection, protection of human rights and the questions of discrimination, culture, media, the Roma woman and her specific problems, and the political participation are the priority areas, which should be solved. Each of these aspects has legal-normative frame, analyzed condition and recommended activities, as well as directly elaborated action plan which should be primarily done.

However, the condition of the Roma people in Macedonia has its own specificities, and that, I suppose, needs a special approach in the working of the strategy regarding other countries?
In many priority areas, the condition in Macedonia regarding the other countries in the region, and abroad, can be said that is identical, but the circumstances in which certain areas can be realized are much more favourable regarding the other states. Macedonia has a greater level of wish for social receptiveness of the Roma people compared to the other states, and also there is an emphasis on the open support of the Government in the process of improving the condition of the Roma people in Macedonia. That is why I consider that, not literally in all areas, but in a considerable part, the priorities will be realized.

How many civil society organizations in Macedonia nowadays have the capacity to carry off the implementation of the National strategy?
The draft-strategy is distributed to all civil society organizations and we are in the phase of expecting their remarks, which can be given until the beginning of December. Afterwards, considering the suggestions, the strategy will be corrected by one general work group under the sponsorship of the Ministry of Labour and Social Policy. Most specifically, civil society organizations are expected to have a great role in the implementation of the Strategy, because without the direct participation of the Roma people themselves in the implementation of the priorities in the Roma community, the process will be made more difficult. It is expected the Roma people in the civil organizations to make pioneer steps, in the sense of fight against certain habits and traditions which are inevitable with the transformation of the social living. Still, there is a certain concern about that, in what degree the whole sector consisted of Roma civil organizations is capable to carry off the implementation on its own, because it is multi-sectional and carries a great responsibility. By the way, these efforts can also include organizations consisted of non-Roma people who have the qualifications and capabilities to respond to the assignment, but, of course, again with the cooperation with the Roma people themselves.  It is about certain organizational capacities which are not developed in all civil organizations, so the question is raised of the strategic planning of the activities in the following ten-year period, especially the incorporation of people in certain areas, as well as the full absorption of the restricted means, which should be used when they are really at hand.

Also, among the Roma people must exist a greater feeling of altruism and a wish for engagement to help its own community, no matter whether some initiatives and activities are accompanied with financial refund or not. This is because now is that moment when the whole Roma community with united forces should make something bigger and more significant for itself. Because of that, the broader consciousness for the help of the community should prevail above the personal and group interests.

What role should the political parties have in the implementation of the National strategy?
Since the Strategy refers to the whole Roma community, it would be desirable for its priorities that all Roma political parties show interest. It is clear that the political parties have a task to implement the priorities through their programs to get the support of the voters. The period that follows will show which political option will implement the proclaimed priorities and in what way. This is so because they are something that will surpass the interests of the party and the wish for self-promotion.

The process of implementation of the National strategy should be coordinated with the process of decentralization.
With the process of decentralization the responsibility of the implementation of the Strategy is largely transferred to the local authorities, because the jurisdiction is greatly transferred on a local level. Here I would like to stress the priority of accommodation, because, generally, the settlements of the Roma people are outside the urbanistic plans and a concrete assignment of the future local authorities is to try and find solutions, whether with legal urbanization – putting it in the detailed urbanistic plan or with some other way of solving the problems with the Roma settlements.  This is an especially important question because the conditions of the accommodation influence the health conditions, the education etc.

And finally, where is Macedonia on the map of countries that have prepared or are preparing the National strategy?
Temporally we are late with the passing of the Strategy, Macedonia is the last, but it is good that the process coincides with the process of passing the Roma Decade, and that we can compare the experiences with the countries in the region. We passed the Strategy relatively fast.

Katerina Bogoeva